A Senior Advocate of Nigeria, Dr Paul Ananaba, shares his thoughts with AYOOLA OLASUPO on the national minimum wage tussle between the Federal Government and Organised Labour, the debate over adoption of a regional government, among other issues
The issue of state police creation has been a bone of contention. While some people are asking for it, others oppose it. What is your view about it?
State police happens in other advanced societies and there is no reason why Nigeria cannot be said to have advanced to have state police. The point is that it is unsuitable because our founding fathers would have done it if we had practised true federalism. In that case, there will be issues that the state police and the central one should handle because for example, why do I need a policeman from Sokoto State in my village where he may not even understand the language, and the people using the native dialects can even trade him off?
In America, the language is almost centrally English. It is the same in the UK and France; they speak French. It is not here that we speak all kinds of languages and then, the man is policing you. The man policing you doesn’t even really understand the dialect. He is here for two weeks, and he has moved to another part of the country. So, that’s why as a person, I believe in devolution of power. We should re-examine the federal units of that federation.
Some people are saying that for the creation of state police to come into reality, there is a need for the country to restructure or amend the constitution. Do you also subscribe to that?
Restructuring must affect the constitution because it will affect section 9 and it won’t affect section 3. Those are the federating units in the constitution. I agree that the constitution should be amended. I agree that we should change it. This system is not working, and everybody knows it. Why should each region of the geo-political zone; the South-East, for instance, have five governors and five Commissioners of Education when there are Permanent Secretaries there? Why should the South-West have six governors when one governor is okay? You save a lot of money.
Are you saying that it will reduce the cost of governance?
Exactly, so that each region should now decide whether they will run by county, or by local government, or whether they will not have states. They will have common currencies and all that. That is federalism. For example, if a particular region is not interested in education, the other region may be the best in education, and people will go to school there. Then we will bring to an end the ‘feeding bottle’ federalism, where every month, people will go to Abuja to collect money from the Federal Executive Council.
The FEC will come to an end. You stay in your region and think of what best to do with your region without waiting for the Federal Government. Even corruption will come to a lower level, because who will you steal money from? No region will allow anybody to steal their money, not now that there is a national cake. You go to the centre, cut your own, and come back home. People will celebrate you because you stole enough.
Are you saying the country should go back to geo-political zones?
I support going back to geopolitical zones. Each geo-political zone should now decide if they want to create 100 states in their geopolitical zone, but whatever they create will not be the federating units. The federating units will be the six regions. The point I’m making is that the federating units should be the regional government. If they want to create a local government that is one billion, let them create. In my place, they used to say if you want to eat akara, you should eat from your pocket and if you pay from your pocket, you know how much akara you will eat.
But some people have argued that the local governments should be cancelled. Do you subscribe to that?
I think it is lazy reasoning that is causing that kind of argument. If we are going to be regions, they don’t even want to say that the local government will continue. We may decide to have counties in the regions and states. They may create their own states. Look at South Africa; it is an example of what I’m talking about. They have their regions; the Southern and Northern Provinces, Eastern Cape, Western Cape, and Northern Cape. The federating units have their local administrations and they run well.
Where did we bring these 774 local governments from? What our forefathers chose, we should not discard their wisdom. So, if the National Assembly goes for regions, I support regionalism in terms of geo-political zones. This clamour for the creation of states will come to an end. There will be no issue of the creation of states, marginalisation, and all of that.
Every region will go to work and what you get is what you have. Where did we bring our people from the national government to go to the Niger Delta to drill oil? Why should they go to Zamfara State to be interested in their gold or uranium and all of that? If it is a regional thing, they will not allow their minerals to be wasted.
The National Drug Law Enforcement Agency Act (Amendment Bill) 2024 passed by the Senate prescribed death penalty for persons found guilty of trading hard drugs and narcotics. Isn’t the law too extreme?
It is the law that makes an offence a capital one and it depends on the country. In Asia, it’s a capital offence and in many countries, it is not. So, let’s not talk about that. But I don’t think we should kill people for drug offences, but there should be strict punishment because drugs are affecting humanity; changing man from what God made him to be.
What is your suggestion on that law?
Death is what we are talking about. It is a human being we are talking about and that thing called death is not reversible. So, we should value the sanctity of human life. Long imprisonment is a yes, but a death sentence is what I don’t support it.
The issue of kidnapping and killings has been on the rise in recent times. How do you think this can be addressed?
Much of the annoyance and the grievance of many of these kidnappers and all that, and the inequity you see in the practice of governance now, where evil triumphs. Somebody kidnaps and before you know it, he’s now flowing in money. He uses the money to buy votes and becomes a leader.
So, a lot of people will say that’s good, let’s go and try our luck. But in the regional government, where people know themselves, the centre is not attractive. Where will you start the kidnapping from? If people know themselves and anything happens, they will know who to sue and that will reduce it. So, kidnapping is on the rise, but there is no work.
Take for example, where you turn regions into federated units, they have saved so much money and they can do big projects and not just small ones because that money you used would have been used to do something reasonable. You are using it to run an administration, the recurrent expenditure. Check our budgets. The current expenditures are so high.
You maintain a government house and have up to six to seven government houses. When one government house can take care of that region, people will be impressed there in their region and those that do well will continue to excel. The ones that don’t do well, people say don’t go there. So, the Federal Government can easily fight the instability.
The Organised Labour and the Federal Government have been in a tussle over the proposed new national minimum wage and some of the governors have said that they cannot pay the demand of labour unions. What advice do you have for the parties involved in the negotiation?
Can this N62,000 buy a bag of rice? We should be considerate about it on both sides because no government in Nigeria can pay N250,000. Labour knows that one clearly; so, maybe not N62,000. We should agree on how to go. From N30,000, let’s not go beyond N90,000. I mean between N70,000 and N90,000.
There should be an agreement, and for governors who are saying they can’t pay that money, that is why I told you that the state can’t run this thing. So, we have to go back to the regions. Rather than seven Ministries of Education, you have one. In that case, you can pay up to N200,000.
You will have quality and productive workers and not just employ people as political compensation. You can pay N100,000 or more than that because you don’t have duplication of ministries in one region. So, no region will say they can’t pay Labour in a regional government.
There are reports that some state governments have yet to start paying the current N30,000 and that some are still paying N8,000, N15,000 minimum wage for their workers. How will you react to this situation?
It is because they have no respect for Labour. Check; it is part of the money they use to do all the irrelevant things. No state government should say it cannot pay that money. It’s just that they didn’t want to pay because it is their priority.
Despite the state allocations which have increased significantly since the removal of fuel subsidy, some of the governors claim not to have the funds, saying they cannot pay the new minimum wage if approved. Will you suggest that they should be compelled to pay the N30,000 minimum wage salary arrears for their workers?
The workers will now have the basis to demand their rights. They will demand it based on the law now and remember that there is a difference between minimum wage and salary. What we are talking about is salary increment, not wage. Wages are being paid in hours. So, if we want to talk about minimum wage, we should be talking about hours.
How do you think governors can be compelled to implement the new minimum wage if signed into law?
The law has ways of compelling people to obey the law. Let the law first come into existence. Remember that the governors are also politicians. It will reduce the amount of money they will have to spend. So, they may say, ‘No; I won’t pay it’. But when the law says they should pay, it becomes the basis to demand the payment.
There are cases of suspects being abandoned and trapped in prisons without trials. What can be done to ensure that such people don’t suffer such ill fate, especially before their cases are determined in court?
Well, there is a law about prison reforms. My friend and others are engaged in prison reforms. Some reforms are coming up, and there is an improvement now. It is the socio-political problems and the economy and others that are increasing the crime rates.
Let us solve these and isolate the criminals, know them, and know what to do with them. Let us do the prison reforms. I propose that we should have courts in the prisons or courts move to sit in the prisons sometimes. That helps to decongest prisons and to give justice to inmates.
The issue of jailbreaks has also been a recurring event in Nigeria in the last 10 years. How do you think such an issue can be addressed?
In some countries in this world of today, prisons are being closed down, but I heard that our government is planning to build more prisons. Most of the existing prisons, when were they built? Many of them are from the early 1900s and they still keep human beings there without proper hygiene and ventilation.
However, the question is, are those not inside the prisons enjoying it? How many times does the government give light inside the prisons? Are you considering the type of life they live there? If we have determined efforts, and we’re building the country in such a way that we should, we should be closing down prisons because we will have little or no crime.
Is the building of prisons, which the Federal Government has embarked on in recent times, the best move to solve the problem of overcrowding?
I have heard of many countries that are shutting down their prisons. I prefer we run a country where there is no need to be building more prisons. We can renovate the ones we have and gradually close them down because we don’t need to encourage people to go to prison.
Are you suggesting that the government should focus on improving the prison infrastructure rather than building more?
The reason why there is an increase in crime is what we should solve first, and not building more prisons. If more people continue to come, how many prisons will we end up building?
